Danny Iny: The Education Industry and the future of online courses (Interview)
Chief Executive Officer Greg Smith interviews best-selling author and creator of online courses Danny Iny on the future of education along with online classes.
About Danny Iny
Danny Iny is the founder of Mirasee which hosts The Business Reimagined podcast. He is also the best-selling author of numerous books such as Engagement from Scratch!, The Audience Revolution, and Teach and Grow Rich, as well as the creator of the well-known Audience Business Masterclass as well as the Course Builder's Laboratory courses, that have produced thousands of value-driven entrepreneurs. This all came out of humble beginnings. he started out just like most online entrepreneurs, having an idea and a message to share, but with no idea of how to accomplish what he wanted to accomplish. There were many wrong choices and what he refers to as "plot changes" inside the Audience Revolution - before really understanding what he called the Audience First paradigm, and how it can be applied to companies on the web.
And when he did it, it was as if he lit the fuse by lighting a match. In 2011, when the company was founded by him, he had Firepole Marketing with less than none; he was without customers, subscribers and no relationships with influential people within the field, and a quarter of a million dollars in personal debt accumulated from the company he founded in 2011 that failed. Within a couple of years, he has grown his company to more than seven numbers of revenue, and the company has grown to include more than 20 people all over the world (including his wife, who is an accomplished artist) who are seeking to build an extremely special global community of over forty thousand enthusiastic and committed entrepreneurs. In 2015, the company changed its name. Firepole Marketing became Mirasee which reflects its true purpose for the business, which will help entrepreneurs with visions generate income by harnessing the power of.
To get in touch with Danny go to mirasee.com
For the full interview, simply click the video to the right:
Read the full transcription here:
Greg Greg: I'm interested to know if you believe there is a need for information-based products? Is that something people should continue to pursue or do we need to do all-out education?
Danny The answer is an excellent question and the answer is that there will always be a need for knowledge. Books, lots of people purchase books. Amazon is basically like the mint of the world because they sell lots of books. It's fantastic. The books are information products. there's always an audience for information, which is fine. There's no need to pay an extra amount for the information. If you're selling information, you must be able to sell a lot of it to make interesting amounts of dollars. If you're wondering if people are selling education or information, it's dependent on the particular subject matter depending on the change you wish to make. If you'd like to be Jim Collins and you want to encourage a broader group of executives to envision the possibilities for their business If you're able to achieve that and succeed, great. Write and promote books which will attract a large number of readers who will look at them. A majority of them will do nothing with them and certain of them may adopt some suggestions and some might hire you to speak with them and then pay you as much as millions of dollars. If you are interested in having a lower number of people in terms of hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands more than millions and you wish to help them create greater impact you should consider education as the best option. It's all about your goals, what do you want to accomplish as well as what impact that you'd like to make? There's a place for information and the need for education. It's a problem when people blur the lines between them and assume they're all the same.
Greg Greg Believe this is a great idea and you're sure to see lots of it. I'm a huge fan of the educational aspect of things. Sometimes, it's information too that I feel is an important aspect when it comes to certain situations. Yet, if these lines blur, and even blurred for the customers and many individuals engage in information-related activities and still even advertising them as educational even though they're just spitting facts at your. What's the reason we're concerned about? This is me being a Devil's advocate. It's not something I'd support however, if I were able to make the distinction to customers and say, "This is a course which is an educational product" But there's not any support in the background this product's purpose is simply facts. It is likely that numerous people do this. they care about the sale however they don't think about what will happen afterward. Why am I concerned about with what will happen after? You obviously are very concerned about this.
Danny Then this is a great question. It's true that this isn't the opinion of you, but I'm fairly certain that you're channeling an skeptical opinion. It's the most important part of the question which I'd like to kind of make explicit. It's a common assumption that many customers have. In business, there will be a time where you'll come across a lot of times with the problem of making the exact business choice, that is that it will earn you more and doing the right thing that's the best thing. The way I think about business is they are the similar. In the case of example, you might get more people to join if you make a course that's not actually a real course, it's simply a bunch of information that will then be smuggled out to them telling them you're offering something they're isn't. The first thing to note is that the amount of refunds will be going to increase, and customers will be unhappy, and they're not likely to be satisfied. This means that you're unlikely to be able to save that cash and you'll face a major issue for customer service along with other things. Second of all, it's an issue of making sure that the public know what you're about and what values they represent. They won't want to deal with you. In the present, limits aren't as obvious as they used to be. There's also a shortage of educators who are truly educated. As I wrote Teach and Grow Rich in my particular field and I was the sole person. Therefore, I'm extremely satisfied to report that Teach and Grow Rich isn't that lengthy time ago. It was in September. It's time to register the program for March. That means it's like just 6 months. It was just recently that it was announced that there would be a major launch of a new program based on LinkedIn Marketing, by Josh Turner, and they have created a service model that is similar to ours which we endorse by way of the program. I just finished an exchange and will be talking next week to a colleague who's an expert in the field of coaching. He states, "I really like what you're up to and would like us to take it on too." It's likely to happen this time of the summer. It's beginning to gain momentum and once it becomes more popular, the customers will know what to look for, they're going to be able to identify the things they're looking for and be able to inquire "So you're saying that there's support but what does this actually mean?" "Oh, there's an online group on Facebook which I could join for a chat with fellow students. Yes, but it's more of a the support you need. It's su-port." It's something you could be able to do it some time, but constructing your business around things that you can get away with for a bit longer isn't the best idea in the business.
Greg I completely agree with you. As I said, my first online course came out 10 years ago. I'm not involved in it anymore as I am focusing on helping other people make their own courses today. And it's been a long time before I even thought about it. My main source of income comes from referrals, reviews and users who are looking for online reviews. And if you're looking for an immediate gain then you're only doing it in the short term and do not really focusing on the main purpose of this particular game. That's an ongoing passive revenue stream.
Danny Danny and most importantly here, and many think it's a question of do I create information products that do not have any support? or education-related products with plenty of support? Naturally that with lots of support comes a huge cost as well as the requirement to recruit instructors, and you'll need to answer emails. The dichotomy is false. not the two options. It's not going to be cost-effective either If you're forced to offer insane quantity of help. It is important to be ready to commit your time and effort to arrive at an area where you are able to deliver the education well without enormous amount of assistance. Our teaching method is fundamentally based on the notion that you need to sort of take these integrated tests. Therefore, you should create a test version of your course before delivering the course. Make sure you are hands-on, and help students with areas in which they need help, discover where they're stuck, the areas that they're having difficulty with, adjust the course to make them not needed anymore. Do it over again and repeatedly, then place it in semi-autopilot, with coaches, or any other person that you need to give assistance. When you've reached the point at which you've decreased the procedure as much as you can or as much as you can In our course building lab, each student is assigned one individual instructor. Because the subject is so complex, even when the process is simplified it's still not enough. In another course of ours we called Write Like Freddy and we stopped it in order to rebuild it. We are going to reopen this program with the title of Standout Guest Posting at some point in the near future. It's a lot less assistance but definitely not a committed coach since it's a much simpler course there isn't the need. So it's not that like it's necessary to get the level where everyone receives a dedicated teacher and massive overhead, you just must be prepared to put in some time and go through the process to reduce the amount of information you give your ideas until it's cost-effective.
Greg Then I'm glad that you attended because I think that is an anxiety. It was something that I was concerned about bringing my course up and in the course and have always wondered that when I first started this coaching business, how would this course grow? Can it be scalable? We know of individuals who have done this, and we've witnessed people doing it, and they're capable of growing. You're in the multi-millions with your classes and have scaled and are focusing on the coaching side of the equation. It's evidently a enterprise that can be scaled and I'm impressed by that because your approach mirrors exactly the approach of lean startup within software.
Danny as well you should keep that your focus when you discuss scaling, as well as when they discuss scalability using classes as though it's an application. Which is the most effective way to grow my business to a large number of customers without carrying the need for additional human interactions? It's a simple way to scale, however there are a variety of ways. Zappos has a huge size, and they're able to say that they've got an enormous human-to-human communication. This doesn't mean there is no interaction with humans However, it's an effective method to scale that can be cost-effective at any dimension.
Greg What is the scale in which you're trying to achieve a specific proportion of students and coaches? Do you have an ideal gold standard that you're trying to reach regarding the ratios?
Danny Danny totally is dependent on the topic in that the subject and the result is likely to determine what the appropriate cost is and the amount of effort required. At the end of the day, you've managed to strike the balance of two competing aspects. One is you want to make sure that each child gets the support they require to succeed. And, on balance that usually means fewer students per coach rather than greater. On the other hand of this, you have be sure you're earning profits, and are profitable, which means you have more students per coach. Therefore it is essential to find the right equilibrium that's profitable and where students receive all the help they need. If you do not go through the process of lean startup, iteratively you're not likely to achieve it as it's very difficult to achieve those numbers without a well-designed course and efficient.
Greg The question is: If there's the time to spend on coaching resources in the course, would you encourage smaller amounts of one-on-1 contact via emails or phone calls or put individuals in groups with an instructor? There have been a couple instances where I've brought in 12 or more people and the feedback from participants was overwhelmingly positive, however I've observed that I'm the one talking, and you'll get very little from everybody They ask questions but the individual participants do not share or talk as much, because you only have about two or three minutes during the one hour or two hours coach training session. It does appear that the participants are able to learn a lot of knowledge from one another. Do you think there's an advantage toward group coaching sessions and the one-on-one time, in the context of a restricted coaching time?
Danny The answer is an outstanding query. It's a complex issue to resolve since it is dependent on the topic. I mean, some subjects can be extremely sensitive. If you're helping someone learn how to handle the issue which is very sensitive to their relationship or relationship, they might not be willing to discuss the subject in front of 10 other people. There's also the subject matter and how sensitive it's going to be as well as how personal the questions are going to be. Then there's the coaching style. Also, in the lab there are builders who will describe what we're working on. One of the most common methods for assistance is through email. The question is sent, you get an answer by your coach in 24 hours, as often as you require. Additionally, we have calls. Individual calls at key moments during the course, and we try to ensure you're at the correct place before they move onto the next stage. We also offer calls during office hours, which means every day, we will have calls that are about 45 minutes long. This is an open-call through Zoom exactly like this, where people can just hop on and talk to the court, and even have questions. We're continually evaluating alternative modalities. We're also considering the possibility of group coaching in which you're able to create appointments that are ten or fifteen minutes, within a ninety minutes timeframe during office hours. This is looking at longer-term plans, such as work sessions in which participants are active at the same time. It's possible that someone is having a hard to deal with a issue might take part in a meeting with up to four coaches to help work through the issue. In all of the above, what we're looking at is two metrics. First, can doing we help our students perform better? What about how is it reducing or coaches' time? In the end, it should be ideal to have both, but at a minimum, it must be one without affecting each other in a way that is detrimental to the other.
Greg I believe it's great. Also, from a company's standpoint I appreciate the way you're taking a look at the metrics you're using and making tiny improvements that benefit and beneficial, which is great. You've spoken briefly about the pilot program But could you perhaps of provide people with a more of an overview about the pilot project? I'm sure it's included in your book more depth, but the overview of how you go about your approach in the pilot project is particularly the thing I'm seeking is the method you use to manage students' expectations through the pilot project.
Danny The answer is that this is a radical concept. But what does it mean is that you tell your customers the truth. It is important to be honest and state that this is not an unfinished and polished product. It's an experimental program and is being tested it's the first time I've done this. I'm evaluating my assumptions. The thing I'm trying to achieve through the test is that I'm looking for opinions on things that make it more efficient. It'll cost you fifty, hundred, or one million dollars. No matter what. But my pilot students will receive the course at a significant discount in exchange of their feedback. This is vital. This isn't a case of getting the item at a discount due to the fact that it's not functioning currently, but it's an affordable price since the value is still there. I'm looking for feedback and so I'm paying the cash portion and in part with the feedback you provide. This is how you should go. When people realize this is the case that they're thrilled and elated about co-creating this with you in a specific way. As I write in my books, I discuss collaboration's importance, and how important it is in a commercial sense However people are more open to collaboration, because they understand that it's not meant to be permanent, they're not evaluating it from an angle of how this design compares to finished courses I would think it would look like and what's the possibility of this specific situation, and how can you provide constructive feedback that aids in unlocking the potential?
Greg Fantastic and when people collaborate on things they can see greater value in them and this will lead to you taking your next course or class, and recommending it to others or rating it very positively. It's so cool to witness this, and I'm awestruck by it. It's an excellent idea. make sure your clients are open and honest. Tell them "Hey this is a test We're looking for your comments."
Danny Danny was exactly what happened in my student group right someone shared a blog post within our group of students that shared their experiences of their first training and their pilot. They developed their pilot and then selling it using the model we have developed. They had the opportunity to recruit some people on board, and were now delivering their first training and recording it using Zoom and that's exactly the platform we're recording our training on. However, they had been using the Free version of Zoom and had not realized the fact that Zoom stops recording after forty minutes. Thus, the class ended after forty minutes of class, ceased. She was then forced to start over a fresh session with everyone to normal. Then she was deeply embarrassed. One of her students said "Well that's what pilots do. This happens." The students understand and they're extremely knowledgeable. If you claim that this is the exact polished version, and that happens, they are going be irritated. But if you are upfront that this is exactly what it is, the public will to love the way it is.
Greg: Yes, that's great. In my opinion, the feedback loop could last even after the pilot has quit, too. When you are starting in this way, it's something that will never be able to stop. Consider the billion-dollar businesses like Slack and Slack and Slack, both of which were founded on the co-creation feedback loop, and keep incorporating it and continue to do it. This is an essential part of their expansion factor, I believe.
Danny: Absolutely.
Greg The issue is: I've got an additional question to ask you. I consider this to be an enormous issue, and it's in its most basic form: can anybody be educated? There is a good chance that you will get that sort of bigger image and also the challenges facing people. So, I'm going to keep going. Are there any people who can get online to create online educational materials and teach?
Danny Danny solution to this question is excellent question. However, the answer is, but it is. Also, since not everyone can be a teacher, however, you must possess something that's essential for the public to be aware of and be able to communicate the information in a useful and meaningful method. Both of these are capabilities. But the bar is a much lower level than most people believe. When it comes to having something that other people would appreciate, many consider themselves experts within my area, but there aren't seven doctoral degrees or written three bestsellers. It's perfectly fine. You do not need it, the way I see it is that the second-grader the fourth-grader has become an expert. The point isn't to pretend that they are experts in something that you're and don't, it's about realizing the value of what you've learned and who it is actually useful. Second graders aren't concerned about whether you're in the fourth grade or an 8th grader or have an PhD, they just are interested in helping them in their multiplication tables, or whatever else they're trying to achieve. Beyond a certain level beyond that, all of the additional data or information becomes useless. It gets into the process of. The more you learn typically in your pursuit of knowing, you're likely to be slightly more challenging in your in understanding those you are trying to serve. Teaching is a skill as well as an art in it. There are some who are competent, knowledgeable teachers. Certainly, not every person will be the most effective educator in the world. The same thing can be said about asking "Can anyone write? There is no guarantee that every person is going to become Malcolm Gladwell, but most people can learn to write more effectively than they are currently generally. be taught that they can write in a way that is good enough that it is effective. Teaching is a similar approach. There's a chance that you're not an excellent educator in the world, but you'll be able to teach in a manner that's beneficial and effective. One of the most important things to do is limit your scope of knowledge you're trying to teach and I often discuss this in my book. Also, it's important to perform the piloting procedure since many of us forget that teaching is a learned skill. Learning to teach a certain part of material within an occurrence is an acquired skill. But, are you able to achieve this kind of result that is effective on the first attempt? Perhaps, but definitely you won't. Do you have the ability to progress the point at which you are able to do well when you have tried it multiple times, receive feedback, and continue to improve? Most likely. While not everyone can, the majority of people have the ability.
Greg"Great, that's incredible and I'm certain that you've seen examples of it often. One instance was where a man was able to use a technique that coworkers would approach him, saying "Hey would you like to help me with this?" And it was as it was very specific. He had just one device he used for his work. Then, he created an online course with to stop people from interrupting his workflow and then said "Here is a chance for you to take my course." Then, he began to take off. He quit the job and moved to a beach in the middle of nowhere, staying there with his family, including the child and also teaches full-time via the internet. He has no status as a celebrity, no massive mailing list or even an influencer position. It's likely that there are plenty of people that know more about this subject. But he went out and created the course he did. And he didn't even focus on every tool available but instead focused on one particular part of making use of it that people constantly asked concerns about. So, I think it's an opportunity, as you said that maybe not everyone can be the perfect person for this position, but it is possible to find specific areas of interest and learn the techniques to master them.
Danny Danny: What child didn't show his classmates in the school how to achieve anything? Most of us do. That's not to claim you're the most effective educator in the world, but it's to say that demonstration, teaching and communication are human nature. Thus, whether you're most effective in the business in this field and it's does not mean that you are a complete foreign idea.
Greg: Yes, definitely. Awesome. That's extremely helpful. I'm confident that every member of our audience will gain an enormous amount of value from this. Take a look at Danny's book Teach as well as Grow Rich. It is definitely a must-read amazing book that provides great insight starting by piloting your courses to certain trends that occur in this space and in our market and how to make the most of them and ensure that a few later on will be ahead of the game. Thanks, Danny. I truly appreciate your time. Your insights on this issue have been very useful and I'm looking forward to further conversations with your in the near future.
Danny: Greg Thank you so much for having me, totally my joy. I look forward to hosting the same thing again.
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